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 Battle of the Boyne - Netherlands, United Kingdom, France, Ireland

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PostSubject: Battle of the Boyne - Netherlands, United Kingdom, France, Ireland   Sun Aug 08, 2010 9:45 pm

Ian is a poor sick bastard who spends far too much time laying around on his arse or gettin tight at the pub, he needs to be more productive with his time, but he also needs some folks to help him do it.

Battle of the Boyne (Cath na Bóinne) July 1st 1690 fought near the town of Drogheda at the ford of the Boyne River. William III had been crowned king in 1688 in the "Glorious Revolution, but James II, the deposed king with the help of the French crown rallied effort to regain his throne. Louis XIV and James chose Ireland to stage the revolt, as the Viceroy of Ireland was Catholic and supported James. The battle was an attempt to stop William from making it to Dublin where the Viceroy was.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Boyne
http://www.irelandseye.com/aarticles/history/events/dates/ch5.shtm
http://goireland.about.com/od/historyculture/a/battle_of_boyne_2.htm
http://books.google.com/books?id=CHLsPSWiz0EC&printsec=frontcover&dq=Battle+of+the+Boyne+1690:+the+Irish+campaign+for+the+English+crown++By+Michael+McNally,+Graham+Turner&source=bl&ots=dCKiD99Ngz&sig=cMfD714J6s3_P_j4qwANH_ycS2M&hl=en&ei=-DNiTNXPF4i6sQOjysGLCA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBIQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

Ian needs a thread, and needs your help to do it.

Thanks for your time.


Last edited by Ian O'Doherty/Éire on Tue Aug 10, 2010 11:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Battle of the Boyne - Netherlands, United Kingdom, France, Ireland   Sun Aug 08, 2010 10:30 pm

Hey! I was going to put a cap on the number of threads that I was going to take soon because I have quite a few going as Spain, but since this is for Netherlands, I'll take this on! I'll need to look over some of the history, but you can count me in.

A couple details to take note of though, England is on hiatus as far as I know, so it may work if I play one side and you play the other? I know it kind of blows the mind because this is the England we are talking about and I'm Netherlands, but at the same time, I'm also ruling over England as well, so perhaps it can work. I'll wait for Arthur and Francis to reply, but I thought that I would throw that idea out there for you to consider.

Along with that, do you have a general idea of how the flow of this thread will go? I tend to like to have an idea of what you are planning so I can mesh my ideas with yours.

It blows my mind that I'm playing a Protestant this time.
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PostSubject: Re: Battle of the Boyne - Netherlands, United Kingdom, France, Ireland   Mon Aug 09, 2010 3:15 am

I am up for it. Sounds like fun, so yeah, we'll just have to see what Angleterre thinks of it : )

And Willem, you have to be careful with how you formulate your sentences. Because the Netherlands did not by any means rule over England. I have no idea what the word for it is in English, but Willem III was both king from England, Ireland and Scotland and Stadtholder of the Netherlands (last one was not even a royal function, but in the Netherlands it was the closest thing to royalty that they had for a long time, since after the great Willem of Orange the title was inherited), but the nations were not united or anything like that.
Stadtholders were also not single rulers, it was the duty of the Stadtholder to protect the Netherlands, he was the highest command in the army, and he was also, most of the time, really popular with the people, but you always had the regents, who took care of politics and were just as powerful as the Stadtholder. You may understand that it was a constant power struggle between the Stadtholders and the Regents. So if the Stadtholder was also king of England, the Regents just would take more tasks on themselves, so they would remain independent.

I hope what I put down makes a little sense ^^'
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PostSubject: Re: Battle of the Boyne - Netherlands, United Kingdom, France, Ireland   Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:50 am

Ah, that's a good point to bring up, Francis and yes, that's what I meant. I had written it meaning that in addition to leading the Dutch troops, I also ruled England (as oppose to ruling Netherlands as well, I didn't even consider that). I didn't really think it through when I replied last night, I was more focused on figuring out alternatives and will make sure to watch out for it in the future.

Thanks for the clarification!
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PostSubject: Re: Battle of the Boyne - Netherlands, United Kingdom, France, Ireland   Mon Aug 09, 2010 11:57 am

Thank you so much for being considerate, everyone. Especially Will, you're trying to think of alternatives that might help lessen my work load. But after reading the articles, the battle sounds to me like a protestant v.s. Catholic battle between two English kings with almost foreign troops on both side.

The good thing about an almost foreign troop is, my side is composed of mostly Danish mercenaries and Dutch regiments, because William I doesn't trust the newly trained English and Scottish troops entirely. But since Stadtholders in the Netherlands are not single rulers but kings in England are (thus more important), I assume William III identifies himself more like an English, but not a Dutch in this case. If you want to play on my side, you might have to slightly alter your representation. Since the Netherlands are not the major component of the war (more like being invited by William III to help him fight), I feel like we are at most companions fighting for the same cause, but most of the time I have to be the one taking the lead.

There is a way to work out with my semi-hiatus. Will, perhaps you can take an observer's point of view to write your post, assuming he is always by Arthur's side and watching and fighting together? So you pretty write my part too and I'll thank you so much

Just kidding. I admit that I am a slacker for not writing posts for the Great Famine. But now my lovely brother requests me formally and of course I will try my best to participate. The first thing I must do is to refrain myself from researching too much unnecessary details...

And yes! I have a thread with Francis now (although we probably won't interact with each other)!
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PostSubject: Re: Battle of the Boyne - Netherlands, United Kingdom, France, Ireland   Mon Aug 09, 2010 1:07 pm

Thanks everyone for replying, and agreeing to come on board so quickly. Artie, we'll make sure to keep your load as light as we can, but the majority of Irish history involves England in some capacity. It's hard to leave you out.

On the surface this battle looks like another excuse for France and England to fight, but there are other layers to this battle. There is the religion angle, protestants vs. Catholics, and there is also a political angle. Many rulers in Europe were very concerned about France's growing power and possible domination of Europe. To defeat France where and whenever possible was in the interests of not only the English, but also the Dutch and Danish governments. Ireland's role in this is that James and Louis chose to stage their revolt in Ireland because it was the last country of the United Kingdom that had a Catholic ruler.
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PostSubject: Re: Battle of the Boyne - Netherlands, United Kingdom, France, Ireland   Tue Aug 10, 2010 9:42 pm

Yeah, I've talked to Arthur about this, but I figured that I might as well post it here for the sake of it being documented and so that we all know what each other is thinking.

I will probably write as an observer in the war, perhaps even the one fighting on the fields for Arthur as well, and acting as an extension of the forces that Arthur leads. If Arthur needs me to write his posts for him, I am more than willing to, keeps me outta trouble.

Hm.. now that I think about it, what will the posting order be?
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PostSubject: Re: Battle of the Boyne - Netherlands, United Kingdom, France, Ireland   Tue Aug 10, 2010 10:58 pm

Posting order, good question.

Ireland.
France
Netherlands
England

I think that would work. That way Ian can start and establish that James and the French are there, and they're expecting to meet William and the British to stop them.
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PostSubject: Re: Battle of the Boyne - Netherlands, United Kingdom, France, Ireland   Tue Aug 10, 2010 10:59 pm

Fighting scenes are so brain-demanding. I wonder if there is a tutorial for that.

And oh my, Will, I didn't know you're so willing to write, you workaholic. Don't deny it.



A spam post for you all.
And the order sounds good!
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PostSubject: Re: Battle of the Boyne - Netherlands, United Kingdom, France, Ireland   Tue Aug 10, 2010 11:19 pm

How to write good battle scenes:

Describe what the characters, see, smell, hear, feel. not just the action. What is the energy of the troops, are they excited and ready to fight, or do they know they're going to a massacre? Casualties for the Battle of the Boyne were pretty light, compared to the number of troops there.

It also helps to have a good understanding of the weapons of the time period.
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PostSubject: Re: Battle of the Boyne - Netherlands, United Kingdom, France, Ireland   Sun Aug 15, 2010 2:18 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Battle of the Boyne - Netherlands, United Kingdom, France, Ireland   Sun Aug 15, 2010 6:54 pm

Ah, I don't know how I missed this thread since I'm watching it, but anyway. The posting order sounds good to me, though just as a warning though, I'll need to do some research before I put anything up.

Arthur, you want me to write the battle scenes and you just point and grunt?

And Francis, please feel free to correct me if I miss a detail. ^^;
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PostSubject: Re: Battle of the Boyne - Netherlands, United Kingdom, France, Ireland   Mon Sep 13, 2010 1:30 pm

Hey, I just wanted to document this so we all know what's going on. In case you guys forgot what we talked about in chat, England and I are switching posting order for the first post because it seemed to make sense for England to give out orders before Netherlands does anything.
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PostSubject: Re: Battle of the Boyne - Netherlands, United Kingdom, France, Ireland   Tue Sep 14, 2010 4:49 pm

Yeah, I already knew about that switch, that's fine.
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